jo_graham ([info]jo_graham) wrote,
@ 2009-03-28 14:49:00
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Let's Talk About Iras
Several readers have said that Iras was their favorite character in Hand of Isis, and asked me to expand a bit more on Iras and her role. I'd also love to hear what you guys think about her!



Iras was an interesting character to write, and one of the difficulties I think in the final version of the book is that Iras' two big scenes in the second half were both cut for space. My draft of Hand of Isis was 180,000 words, or 40,000 words bigger than the final version, so I had to cut a lot. While I think it made a tighter and better book in many ways, the character who suffered from the cuts most was Iras.

That was because her subplots and scenes were in many ways the most independent. For example, one long scene missing is about Iras in her role as the avatar of the Lady of Amenti, just as Charmian represents Isis Pelagia. That's really Iras' story, not Charmian's. And so it was easy to remove without leaving a scar. Another scene addressed Iras' interest in Dion, and how she had been bitterly disappointed as a teenager when she discovered that Dion would never have feelings for her, but decided that she valued his friendship too much to let her one-sided feelings come between them. I think that vibe is still there between them in the earlier chapters, and I hope one may read that into Iras' actions.

Another cut is a much longer version of the scene earlier when Iras is poisoned instead of Cleopatra. That scene originally was quite long, with Charmian and Dion sitting with her while she was ill. But again, it was really Iras' story, not Charmian's. The important thing to Charmian is that she was ill, and she recovered, not what Iras took away from this.

So what do you guys think of Iras? Questions? Thoughts?


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[info]rymenhild
2009-03-28 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I did notice that, especially by the end of the book, Iras seemed peripheral; Charmian's relationships with Emrys and Dion, Cleopatra, and the children kept coming before Iras.

I like Iras's career and her devotion to it, her very different attitudes towards sexuality than Cleopatra's or Charmian's, and her bedrock loyalty to her sisters, which comes through even when she's furious.

I don't suppose there's any chance you might share those cut scenes with us?

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[info]jo_graham
2009-03-30 10:58 am UTC (link)
I really like Iras. I think in some ways it's natural that other relationships came to the fore with Charmian -- the children, and her lover. That happens as sisters grow older. But I do wish I could have shown more of Iras older. Perhaps I will put up some cut scenes.

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[info]lonelywalker
2009-03-28 07:14 pm UTC (link)
...huh. This is interesting to know, because it did seem as if Iras faded away as the book went on - which seemed reasonable enough given the nature of the plot.

When you say "cut for space", is that a purely practical reasoning (that the book has to only be X pages), or a plotty one?

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[info]jo_graham
2009-03-30 11:02 am UTC (link)
The book was too long. So I had to take 40,000 words out. And while I think some things were better and tighter, there are other things I miss. I made a dreadful mistake in the beginning -- this should have been two books, breaking after Caesar's death, with each one about 95,000 words. But unfortunately there's not any way to remedy that. I hope that it worked anyway.

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[info]lonelywalker
2009-03-30 12:29 pm UTC (link)
Well, I would have loved for it to be longer, but I'm sure it's better to leave your readers wanting more than yawning at page 750.

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[info]fried_flamingo
2009-03-28 07:23 pm UTC (link)
It was something that I noticed in the novel, how Iras didn't feature as much in he later half of the book. Sometimes it even felt as if she and Charmian were growing apart, and the only thing that bound them was Cleopatra. But I can understand the need for having to sacrifice scenes for the good of the story, especially if those scenes aren't really about your central character.

I too would be interested in reading those cut scenes :)

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[info]jo_graham
2009-03-30 11:02 am UTC (link)
I might put some cut scenes up! I could do that!

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[info]yasaman
2009-03-28 08:35 pm UTC (link)
I too had noticed that Iras faded away a bit in the latter half of the novel. As much as Hand of Isis is Charmian's story, I'd love to read the cut scenes or Iras' story as well.

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[info]jo_graham
2009-03-30 11:03 am UTC (link)
I might put some cut scenes up. I could do that!

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[info]m_nivalis
2009-03-30 01:13 pm UTC (link)
Please do!

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[info]kethlenda
2009-03-29 03:08 pm UTC (link)
I picked up a vibe toward the end of the book where I decided Iras was attracted to Antonius, but I don't know if it was actually in the text or if I made it up. ;)

I definitely wanted to see more of her. I would devour the cut scenes, I'm sure. :)

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[info]jo_graham
2009-03-30 11:06 am UTC (link)
Iras was attracted to Antonius! Absolutely! He's her type, but the type she knows better than to go after. That part of Iras is modeled on a friend of mine from college, who said she was always attracted to the guys who were big stoners and big losers, the guy who's always gonna be in a band anytime now and he's gonna make it big only he drops out of school and he plays a little at this club and ten years later he's working for his dad's insurance office and he drinks too much and any day now he's gonna get his big break and be brilliant. You know that guy. Anyhow, my friend said, that's what I'm attracted to, but I don't want that life. I don't want to be the girl always making excuses and lending him money and getting my car out of impoundment in the middle of the night because he was driving it when he got arrested. No thanks. I can't be that girl. So where does that leave her?

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[info]kethlenda
2009-03-30 03:39 pm UTC (link)
*nods* Because she has more sense than a lot of us, who spend years dating people who are bad for us, but it doesn't really leave her anyone to get involved with.

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[info]jo_graham
2009-04-02 09:55 pm UTC (link)
It really doesn't. And she's (wisely) not willing to compromise on that.

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[info]queen_bellatrix
2009-07-08 09:10 am UTC (link)
Hello,

I just discovered your books over the weekend, and devoured them. Iris was one of my favorites in Hand, although I'd have to say it was Caesar who really grabbed me. Anyway, I, too, would love to see cut Iris scenes, but if you've posted them, I can't seem to find them. If they're floating about, could I have a link, please? And if they're not, would you consider posting?

Iris, to me, was such an incredibly wise character. She knew enough about her own personality to stay clear of individuals like Antonius. This is such a rare trait in fiction these days; many characters, especially female ones, have this frustrating habit of taking one look at the loser they should run screaming from and just.. falling to bits. I loved how you portrayed the wisdom of sometimes remaining alone, if the individuals you go for are distructive; it's a pity we don't see this more often.

And your portrayal of Antonius was one of the best I've seen in novels about this time period. I've always wanted to see Antonius's flaws highlighted. Too often, I think, he is portrayed as bumbling, maybe inept, but essentially rather warm and fuzzy; qualities like his cowardice and drunkenness are oftentimes glossed over to greater or lesser degrees, and I admire you immensely for not taking the easy way with his character. Both the novels are brilliant, and I look forward with great anticipation to the next!

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[info]jo_graham
2009-07-10 06:23 pm UTC (link)
I'm so glad you enjoyed the books! I appreciate you saying so!

I'm glad Caesar grabbed you -- he's interesting to do because he's been done so often, and it's a challenge to find something new to do with him.

I haven't posted the cut Iras scenes. Maybe I will in the future!

She was a fascinating character to write, and I really wanted to say something about the archetype -- she's drawn to Dionysian men, but she's wise enough to know that she can't cope with what that will entail. She loves too deeply and profoundly, she'll take too much bull from them. Charmian is much more capable of saying, "Get it together or I'm out of here" than Iras. Iras knows she'd put up with way too much if she went down that road.

Charmian really doesn't like Antonius! He's her sister's husband, and she knows her sister loves him, but she thinks he's a screw up. He's made a mess of his life and he's pulled her family into it. But she'll put up with him for the sake of the sister she loves.

I'm happy you liked the books, and I hope you enjoy Stealing Fire too!

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